Just to clarify, we like our doc and her comment may have been a bit clueless but it came from her desire to make sure we could have a baby. I did find it hurtful, however, because it was like she was giving up on me, after presenting me with the challenges I face, in the middle of my appointment. It made me feel like a failure or like I wasn't worth the effort, or it wasn't going to work with me. (Which I actually don't believe.)
The other problem was her assumption that if there are two uteri in the room, then they're both options. And not understanding that there might be other issues at play there, or that we might have discussed this ourselves and rejected that idea. I mean, I am her patient. My partner happens to have a uterus, but she was not the patient in the room. And that was our very deliberate choice. It was a little odd for her to try to switch patients on us in the middle of a consult, right?
I know some lesbian partners decide to both carry, at different times, or even at the same time (Carey, I'm totally in awe of you and Steph). I know that in some lesbian relationships, it is difficult to choose who will try first and painful to be the one who is the "other mother." I'm up on my Brill and on my Aizley anthology.
In our family, however, we are certain that we will have a child either by me carrying, or by adopting (which we feel really good about, and relieved to live in a state where it's legal, but that's probably a different post). My partner isn't going to be carrying. It's more complicated than I can explain here, but it's related to her choices and her identity and gender and body image and life history and comfort level and lots and lots of things. And I have to tell you, I feel lucky. (I mean, I'm lucky in general because I love her soooo much, but I feel specifically lucky about this.) Because of my own identity and gender expression and life history and who I am, I think it would be really hard to be the non-carrying partner. It would certainly mess with who we are and how we see ourselves. I look with admiration at women who want to carry but let their partners try first, and I think I couldn't do it. I wonder sometimes if this is a weakness or a problem of mine. My sweetie and I are a good match in many ways, and her non-interest in carrying fits me really, really well. (Non-interest in carrying definitely not the same as a non-interest in parenting.)
(I did have a dream for a little while that if we did IVF, that we could use my sweetie's eggs and I could carry, but I'm not even sure that she'd be able to do that .... Maybe. We'll see.)
So how does it work for you? Are you and your partner taking turns, both going to carry? How did you pick who gets to go first? Are both uteri in your homes open for business? Do people in your life, like my doctor, just assume that lesbos get two uteri for the price of one? Are you ok with those assumptions? Have your thoughts changed over time, based on fertility issues you have or haven't run into? What have people asked you about this and have you found good ways to explain or answer?
18 comments:
In our household I have always been the one wanting to carry a baby and my wife does not ever want to. In fact, she had some serious reservations about my desire to do something that major to my body. We have worked thur our issues and I feel like we are in a good place right now. If we encounter fertility problems I do not know how it will change things, but I am confident that we can face anything together.
-nutella
I think it's awesome that you two are perfect together in that way!! K and I are very similar. I've known since I was a little girl that I wanted to be a mommy....probably more than anything else. My girl never wanted to GIVE BIRTH. She never had a desire to physically go through it, where I did. She always thought she would adopt a child....but we have worked out perfectly together, just like you two. This was a great post and thought-provoking!! xo
We're in exactly the same boat. I want to carry, my partner does not. I want to carry for all the reasons people do. My partner has no interest in being pregnant, but we both really want to be parents. Truthfully, she also has a little less investment in me becoming pregnant (vs. adoption) than I do. The parent thing is about us, the pregnant thing is about me. Ultimately, I've come to view our positions on these issues as a blessing (no disrespect for how others do it, just for us). The fact that our roles are so defined, and the fact that we both want it that way, just makes things easier for both of us intellectually. We've taken a lot of steps to try to balance the issue of the biological vs. nonbiological connection - the baby will have my partner's last name and I will hypenate, we picked a donor that looks a lot like her and has a similar academic background and interests. However, I think even those steps were a lot more about me than her - she truly believes that it's the love that's most important. Which I think is great. It works for us.
Don't ever apologize for what so clearly is right and works for you and for your partner. And don't apologize for not being open to letting her try, even in the hypothetical world in which she might want to.
I don't think I could ever have watched my partner try first so I totally get that.
Uterus divisions in our home are unclear for the future. We would very much like two children that can be gotten here through my or our bodies. First child is coming through me (God willing) and we had no conflict deciding this since I've always felt a burning desire to be pregnant and give birth and my wife never has felt that way. Second child I've given her right of first refusal. If she wants to carry, she can, if not, then I'll do it again.
I have to say however, that we are a million miles away from making decisions for child 2 that it was hard for me, initially when planning to even consider that I might not carry/birth both my kids and that even now I find it very difficult to imagine that role reversal. But, we're also so deeply emmeshed in trying to get me pregnant right now that we can't and don't want to see beyond it. No cart before the horse and all that.
Okay, I'll stop before this becomes novel-length!
When we first talked about having kids, I always knew I would carry. Basically I always wanted to be pregnant and Sum didn't. So that worked out well. Since we have been trying for number 2 and it hasn't worked with me, our friends would always say, "Why don't you try Sum?" I was immediately offended and hurt by this somment that came up one too many times. Like they think something is wrong with me so why not try Sum. It really pissed me off because people don't know how hurtful that is to someone who wants to be pregnant so badly. Well anyway, since it hasn't been working I eventually came to terms with letting Sum try too. Especially after 2 miscarriages. We just want a freaking baby already and we don't care who has it. I think it is great that you guys have a plan of you carrying or adoption. You guys have obviously talked about it and figured out what works best for your family. Don't let anyone change your minds! Stick with your plan! I sooooooooo know how you feel!ebddkiye
I really don't like the suggestion that one should just switch up uteri. We have been asked by our friends how many "trys" I would have before H would try. I hate that question. H. does want to carry a baby, at least at this point. We decided I would go first mainly because my benefits are better, I get great maternity leave, and I have PCOS so we assumed that I would have more difficulty getting pregnant. I think this decision is just the first of many in two family households that is so different from opposite sex couples. I wish people could be a little more sensitive in their questioning.
Lizzie -
I'm in a very similar situation as you. Greta has no interest in being pregnant and that works perfectly for us. I don't know if I could be with someone who wanted to carry a child. I NEED to be doing that. It's this desire that I've had for years and years. I don't know if I could sit on the sidelines while she was pregnant. She will be a wonderful mother and has a strong desire for a family.
Everyone assumes that I'll carry. Some ask, none are surprised by the answer.
Oh hun. I'm pissed about the comment too and would feel the same way. My Angi has the exact same vague list of reasons why she would never ever carry. I don't even think of her having a uterus to be honest. It's so removed from her identity. And it would fucking devestate me if a medical professional tried to offer her ute up in the middle of my appointment.
I know it's super awkward and I can't say that I'd have the gall to do it, but consider saying something to her at your next appointment about how such a comment was uninformed and inconsiderate.
Or I can prank call her.
This has been a recurring topic around our house too. Like a lot of the other commenters, it has always been me that wanted to carry our child, and my partner has absolutely no interest. She even wrote a whole post about it: http://pbxmakesfour.wordpress.com/2008/05/20/pregnancy-for-all/
Before our BFP, we did get to a place where we considered switching should it not be possible for me, but I think we're both very glad that we didn't need to.
I NEVER wanted to be pregnant and I never wanted to experience giving birth (I find it kinda gross). However, I always wanted genetic offspring (mostly for the curiosity factor of what a little me would look like). Steph ALWAYS wanted to be the one pregnant & didn't care so much about genetics. Our initial plan was to use my eggs & put the embryos in her. A perfect plan for our desires. Except it did not work... twice we tried with IVF. In the end, we both ended up carrying (her through an IUI, me with IVF #3). After a while, the goal of having a baby significantly outweighed who would actually carry.
Again, I really don't think your doctor meant any disrespect. Perhaps she was looking at you guys as more of a family unit vs. individually and trying to think of the quickest way for you to achieve your goal of having a baby. (at least that is what our RE said when he made a similar comment and we talked to him about it - his goal, plain & simple was to get "us" pregnant)
I agree that the doctor was probably looking at you two as a family unit and that is why she said that. However, I am really surprised that someone in the fertility biz would not get that at a very fundamental level some women intensely desire to actually BE pregnant. I would've been really hurt/mad. Both me and my partner want to carry a child but I am going first because I am older and intensely wanted it years ago...she wants it in the future. (Now that I am pg, she wants it sooner then she did before). When we had trouble getting pg, the thought of her carrying first was really upsetting to me. Likewise, it really bothers her (due to gender/identity stuff when she feels others conceptualize her in the daddy/helper role. When people ask why I'm first I tell them its because I am older. A couple of people have said "Well doesn't it make more sense for her to carry then?" Ouch. Generally I find people get it.
When we began discussing it, Vanessa was actually interested in carrying, and we even went through two RE consults for her (but no testing). She's older, so it made sense that she'd go first. I got really into it and picked out a sperm donor. The more real it became, the less she wanted to do it. I waited through her hemming and hawing for about six months before I told her that I wanted to carry, and she gladly handed over the keys and never really considered using her uterus for anything again. Since we've had so much trouble getting me pregnant, she briefly considered carrying again, and it caused a totally unexpected identity crisis. Now that I'm pregnant and we've also become very comfortable with the idea of adoption, I don't think she'll ever consider it again.
I'm relating to Carey and Sarah's comments the most. In the beginning K never wanted to carry and it was always assumed I would. Then as it got closer to 'trying' she suddenly came round and decided she wanted to have a baby, too.
I'm 8 years older than her, so I'm going first. I've also had insensitive ppl ask why not her since she's so much younger. They mean well, the idiots.
We are also looking at doing IVF using her eggs which she is much more excited about--even with her severe aversion to all things involving needles and blood--she has gladly offered her eggs to me rather than giving birth herself.
She's much more into the idea of having a genetic offspring than being pregnant.
But if it comes down to it and I can't get pregnant, she has the baby. It will be hard for me, but she'll do it and in the end we'll have the baby.
I really do think your Dr. meant well and you made me think about it in a totally different way.
We plan to have 2 kids and each carry one. The best of plans, though...
Fern recently indicated that she'd be open to switching to me if it didn't work for her after a while. This surprised me. It's very important that we both experience pregnancy. It's very important to Fern (and to me but to her more) that we do this without fertility drugs/procedures so if she can't get there without them we might think about passing it to me. Who knows? Hopefully we won't have to make that choice. Fern's going first for the sole reason that she's 3 years older.
I agree with others, it's so inappropriate for your doc to suggest that you switch especially in the middle of an appointment.
Thanks for coming over to my blog!
I always really, really wanted to be pregnant, and S is not so sure. So I'm going first, we'll see what happens the next time around.
You also never know what might change. I have very dear friends where it was clear that one always had the burning desire to be pregnant and the other, not.at.all. But when several IUI attempts didn't work, testing came back that she was in early menapause...no chance of pregnancy. Her partner has just started IUIs...she considers it the biggest gift she can give to her wife. So I think, always be open to possibilties.
I think your doctor was out of line, but probably not with bad intention.
well, we just knew S. was going to go first--she is 3 years older than I am, and expressed a burning desire to be pregnant, while I could sit it out and wait a couple of years and hey, maybe let her carry the 2nd if I'm o.k. with being the non-bio mama, you know? but we're lucky that we just had the agreement and that after this baby comes, we'll play it by year. I have, in the meantime, been tracking my fertility just in case, as the plan really is for me to go next!
I won't give the long version, but for many reasons, I felt that only one of us should carry (Concern regarding equal bonds between each child and adult. I also felt it should be me. (My ability to bond being my primary concern. E is amazing at connecting with folks.) It was an agreement that took over a year to get to, but both of us now feel it was the right one for us. E's desire to have a child was wrapped more in biology than carrying a baby. We had hoped to do an IVF w/ her eggs/my bod, but that isn't in the cards thus far.
I wanted to comment on this even though it's an old post because it really resonated with me.
My parter, too, has never wanted to be pregnant, though she has always wanted to be a mom. Oddly enough, people always assume she is the one ttc since she is the "girlier" of the two of us and identifies as "femme" (though i don't necessarily identify as butch but more androg). i've always thought i would be pregnant my whole life. there have been times in my life that i'm wary of it mainly because i have anxiety issues and i wonder how that will play out in pregnancy. i'm not on meds for it but could be - i do a lot of acupuncture and homeopathic stuff... anyways... recently, when i found out my tube was blocked, i was really, really sad bc it had NEVER occurred to me that maybe i would never have a successful pregnancy and give birth. and suddenly all those moments of fearing the pregnancy were gone and i was like, but i NEED this and i wasn't as scared. (can't really explain that whole thing other than when the thought of it being taking away happened i was SO much sure of myself). during that time my wife told me that she'd consider getting pregnant if i couldn't and i totally freaked. i was like NO WAY. i mean, i really got upset. after i calmed down i told her i thought maybe i'd be jealous and i don't think i could live with finding out i can't get pregnant and then watching her go through a pregnancy. it was a weird feeling and i felt really guilty and selfish about it bc after all - we just want a baby!
like you, we are both totally happy to adopt and we (often) wonder if we should just stop all of the ttc and adopt sooner than later (because we will adopt at some point either way). so, we feel lucky that adoption is happy option for us and we agree on when we'll stop ttc (if/when i'm exhausted, if/when it starts to negatively affect the relationship or if it begins to take a negative toll o my body or becomes unsafe).
thanks for posting this.
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